00:00:00 John Daub: Inside the basement of the Marugoto Kochi store. This is actually kind of like a paradise. We're surrounded by bottles of sake. I know a little bit about Japanese sake, and if you ever really want to get into it, Kochi is one of the places in all of Japan with such a diverse amount. There are 47 prefectures in Japan. Almost all of them have a robust sake industry.

00:00:31 John Daub: But Kochi has some really delicious ones, as you can see right here. The great thing about this store is not only do you have rare ones you can only find here even shopping in Tokyo, but you can actually try them at the bar. We have a sake right in front of us. Look at this. I can't even read this one. No way! I know you! This is the author of the Sake Handbook.

00:01:03 John Gartner: Thank you.

00:01:03 John Daub: John Gartner! How are you?

00:01:07 John Gartner: I need some sake.

00:01:11 John Daub: I want to introduce the master of the Kochi store here. He's going to be helping us with some of the sake. Let me get my mask on. We're down in the basement. I hope the signal's okay. I wanted to start the live stream down here because it's really like a cave. This is the kind of place where you can really get into sake. Oh, there's Chiara over there. It's nice and cool, with a refrigerator for the good stuff. I know a little about Kochi sake, but not enough. John is going to fill us in, starting with this one. So what exactly is this?

00:01:54 John Gartner: This is Tsukasa Botan. It's one of the larger, more well-established premium brewers in Kochi. Kochi's only got 18 brewers, and this is one of the larger, more established, more well-distributed ones. The product name is Senshu Hasaku, which refers to the signing of a document on a boat by the gentleman whose statue is upstairs.

00:02:23 John Daub: Oh, this guy! He got them the important document, right?

00:02:26 John Gartner: Yeah, the signing of the document on the boat was Senshu Hasaku.

00:02:36 John Daub: Good job, mister! Thank you, Oma! Oh my gosh, hold on. Ruth, are you joining us?

00:02:42 Ruth: Yes, I'm joining you. Is that okay?

00:02:44 John Daub: It's alright, as long as you dance.

00:02:48 Ruth: Okay.

00:02:48 John Daub: Alright. So this particular product is a junmai-shu (pure rice sake), made with rice, water, and koji only. The rice hasn't been milled as far as for ginjo, but you get a fairly solid flavor. However, it's quite dry, typical of a lot of Kochi sake. This one is very representative, kind of an iconic Kochi. Furthermore, it's unpasteurized namazake (raw sake), so on top of the dry, solid backbone flavor, we'll have lively aromatics.

00:03:17 John Daub: Did you get all that? That's a lot of information. I'm so glad. I love these details. This is exactly what we need for live streams. So let's try it. This says karakuchi (dry).

00:03:30 John Gartner: Yeah, karakuchi means dry. Much sake from Kochi. Spec-wise, Kochi has the driest sake in the country. However, it's not uptight. It's got a good backbone, made to drink a lot of.

00:03:42 John Daub: This is the same producer, but made with a brand new rice called Tosa Urara. This is the first year all the brewers made sake with it. It was in testing last year, but they couldn't legally put the name on it. We don't have time to taste this one down here. It says we'll taste it upstairs, away from the dungeon where the signal is stronger. Mr. Fujiwara described the flavor profile. I've never had it and I'm looking forward to it.

00:04:19 John Gartner: He's never had it. Breaking news in the world of sake.

00:04:24 Mr. Fujiwara: This is a new one. We're going to try this upstairs, as well as the best we have in Kochi.

00:04:31 John Daub: But first down here, we're going to try this one.

00:04:38 Mr. Fujiwara: It's a dry taste with the sweetness of sake, nice aftertaste. This is the real Tosa summer namazake (raw sake).

00:04:56 John Daub: So unpasteurized, full namazake feel, representative of Kochi with a very nice dry, clean finish.

00:05:12 John Gartner: Dry, clean finish.

00:05:13 John Daub: I want to try that.

00:05:16 John Gartner: Yeah, let's try it. Ladies first.

00:05:18 Ruth: Okay. Here we go. Kirei na ii (nice and clean).

00:05:29 John Daub: There's a target in the bottom of the cup.

00:05:32 John Gartner: A hundred years ago, when they didn't have pasteurization and refrigeration like today, sometimes sake would go bad over summer. You could look where the blue meets the white to see if it's cloudy, check the clarity. That's the purpose of the bullseye.

00:06:05 John Daub: Very dry. It is clean.

00:06:16 Ruth: Very clean. There's a slight sweetness that dissipates into bitterness on the sides and melts away. The finish is so neutral. It doesn't leave a mess in your mouth. It's really good, melting.

00:06:44 John Gartner: Like in Japanese, melting on your tongue, warming.

00:06:51 John Daub: Alright, guys, let's take this party upstairs where the signal's better. Thank you so much. I'll see you in one minute.

00:06:58 John Daub: Hey everybody, we are back. Now on the second floor in front of me are the sakes we're going to drink, including the one from downstairs and this one from Tosa. One of only 18 breweries in Kochi Prefecture. We have four other sakes in the back we're going to enjoy and learn about. That's our sake episode for today, joined by three brave souls that look thirsty. We're behind layers of sake and glass. We lost John, that's alright. Hey Amy, how you doing? Put this towards a bottle you'll share with Kanae. For those joining on livestream, we're joined by John Gartner, author of the Sake Handbook, for detailed info. In front of us are bottles of sake and a healthy portion of tataki (seared bonito), grass-charred bonito fish from Kochi Prefecture, very delicious. Check out our cuisine episode. John, this other sake is one you haven't tried, from the same brewery as Tsukasa Botan, made with new sake rice from Kochi Prefecture. Brewers develop new sake rices constantly. Very few last. Mr. Fujiwara said downstairs it's very light. Brewers are careful with new rice at first to avoid heavy flavors.

00:09:43 John Gartner: In any event, his assessment was very light. I'm looking forward to tasting it.

00:09:48 John Daub: Breaking news again. We started in the dungeon. What's so funny? If there was a zombie apocalypse, I'd want to be in that dungeon with a year's worth of sake. One question: sake is brewed, shochu is distilled. Sake isn't aged, drink within a certain time?

00:10:21 John Gartner: 99.999% of sake isn't meant to be aged. Drink relatively soon after purchase to enjoy as the brewer intended. It matures but won't be what they wanted.

00:11:02 John Daub: Japanese drinkers preserve the brewer's integrity. In the US at college, we drank Beast or Natural Light. But I've matured, prefer sophisticated now. After opening a bottle, drink within a week. It's more forgiving than wine, oxidizes slower. Any sake lasts a week open. Unopened, a year, but drink ASAP. That's why not great to buy 1.8-liter bottles. Get 720ml, share, drink in a day. It's only 10 drinks. Claire's a big wine drinker, two and a half bottles of wine equivalent. A happy week.

00:13:36 John Gartner: The brand is Tsukasa Botan, rice is Tosa Urara. It's officially adopted this year, first time on label.

00:14:02 John Daub: Does Urara mean ice cold?

00:14:04 John Gartner: No, tsurara is icicle. This means beautiful.

00:14:15 Mr. Fujiwara: Really gentle, beautiful scent, delicate nose. Taste is soft, smooth, really drinkable. Tosatsuru-like, Kochi-like, kirei (clean)-like sake. Opens delicately but disappears quickly, common in dry Kochi sakes.

00:14:55 John Daub: He really recommends this new sake.

00:15:02 Ruth: When you drink kudasake, you feel ooh la la.

00:15:36 John Gartner: It smells delicate. New rice, we'll see how it holds up. It tastes delicate, very smooth.

00:15:46 John Daub: Sake rice like Yamada Nishiki isn't for food.

00:15:55 John Gartner: Yamada Nishiki is the best for nihonshu (Japanese sake). There's a glut now from COVID. Oversupply, so you can buy it for eating, but less fat/protein, doesn't taste as deep.

00:17:11 John Daub: What do you think of this sake?

00:17:14 Guest: Really nice and clean. Would go well with Italian food.

00:17:52 John Gartner: Local farmers charge premium, so they develop local rices as good but cheaper. Crossbreed, test yields, growth.

00:18:30 John Daub: If you have questions, let me know so I can get the camera on you.

00:18:49 John Gartner: To me, mild with viscosity, good umami, nice texture. Overall mild and dry, expressive of Kochi—dry but with backbone. Light, delicate, ephemeral.

00:19:16 Guest: Dry backbone but tough.

00:19:22 John Daub: Rob's question: what makes Kochi dry?

00:19:31 John Gartner: They drink a lot. Water buffaloes famous for it. Dry with backbone, salinity, easy to throw back. Techniques of master brewers. Ahime is sweet. Kochi ocean side, fresh fish dictates style. Local cuisine always does.

00:20:28 Mr. Fujiwara: Those two match best with katsuo no tataki (seared bonito).

00:20:51 John Daub: The other is from Suigei brewery, made with Okochi rice, Gin no Yume (Golden Dream). Drinking Whale, drunk whale.

00:21:35 Guest: Drunk whale.

00:21:54 John Daub: Drunk Whale from Kochi, best name today. Matches katsuo tataki per sensei. For Hawaii folks, Kochi katsuo better than Hawaii. Dip in ponzu (citrus soy sauce). Charred with straw, burgundy-red outside.

00:26:19 John Gartner: Saltiness counters dryness, pulls fruit aroma. Tastes fruitier.

00:26:34 John Daub: Ditto, sweet.

00:27:17 Guest: Koji is rice with mold grown on it. Enzymes chop starch to sugar.

00:27:20 John Gartner: Like malting barley for beer. Sake uses Aspergillus oryzae (koji-kin mold). Takes two days. Ichikōji ni moto sanzukuru (one koji, two moto, three moromi)—koji most important.

00:28:16 Guest: Is koji the secret sauce?

00:28:29 John Gartner: Protective against contamination. Nothing exerts more leverage than koji-making. Bad bacteria ruins it.

00:29:08 John Daub: Some secretive like Dassai.

00:29:41 John Gartner: Structured processes.

00:29:56 Mr. Fujiwara: Sparkling sake.

00:30:16 John Daub: Like champagne. Same rice as Whale Tail, Golden Dream.

00:31:23 John Gartner: Sparkling sake boom last 20 years, small market but growing. Some for Olympics instead of champagne, or women.

00:32:01 John Daub: Pure sake people have trouble with bubbles.

00:33:30 John Gartner: Most jacked with CO2, some secondary bottle fermentation like champagne.

00:34:01 Guest: Interesting taste, overtures of pepper.

00:34:47 John Gartner: They brewed knowing CO2 added, with umami, sweetness, balance to stand up to gas.

00:35:10 Mr. Fujiwara: Gives spiciness.

00:35:52 John Daub: Next, Kameizumi Cell 24. Unusual for Kochi, sweet. Best seller here. Kochi researches yeasts for aromas like ethyl caproate—apple, tropical.

00:38:04 John Gartner: Cell 24 intense fruity. Weak fermenter at 14%, high sugar (-13 nihonshu-do), balanced acidity. Namazake only, delicate flavors would disappear if pasteurized.

00:43:02 Mr. Fujiwara: Not popular in Kochi at first, but Tokyo popularity made Kochi discover it. Outlier.

00:44:28 John Daub: Kochi women drink men under table, flattest gender equality.

00:45:50 John Gartner: Hachikin (heavy drinkers).

00:47:28 John Daub: Bunka-jin Risshūru (literary/cultured person). Run by couple in 40s, taste that harmony. Big job, more helpers.

00:50:40 John Gartner: Flavor in mid-palate, clean finish, earthiness, high acidity, moderate aromas. Good balance.

00:51:25 Guest: Sake purer than water?

00:51:49 John Gartner: Japanese bring out most of raw materials. Attention to detail in koji—incomprehensible, every grain uniform. Expresses purity of rice/mold.

00:53:17 John Daub: Minami (south), from owner's family name. East Kochi, Yasuda-cho, minerally area. Muroka junmai nakadori (unfiltered pure rice middle-pressings). Final, serious one pirates drink.

00:54:48 John Gartner: Long ago, koji shops sold to families for miso.

00:55:29 John Daub: Learned regionality of sake—drink a region. Immersed in Kochi with tataki. Better off beaten path. Can you get Kochi experience in Tokyo?

00:56:48 John Gartner: More idiosyncratic, intense Kochi-ness. Air, rivers, scents different. People serving too.

00:57:55 John Daub: Tastes better at source, tour breweries like Tsukasa Botan.

00:58:50 John Gartner: Northeast Tohoku light/delicate, southwest rich/earthy—except Kochi exception, bone dry, isolated.

01:00:10 John Daub: Minami pirate drink, puts hair on chest. Not intense, good, drinkable.

01:01:35 John Gartner: Earthy, solidly constructed but soft, flavor-driven, not aromatic.

01:02:19 Guest: Blockish, hard but drinkable, layered, complex.

01:03:05 John Daub: Kochi sake driest in Japan, lowest glucose, cuts through food. Serious drinkers, easy to keep drinking. All 18 breweries here. Downstairs no tastings due to COVID, but upstairs with food, then buy downstairs. Only 18 of 1200 nationwide, yet heavy drinkers.

01:06:25 Guest: Challenge: English word for each of 18 sakes, like Minami "sly."

01:07:29 John Daub: Primal sounds borderless. Left Find Me cards here.

01:08:03 John Gartner: Kochi sent yeast to Soyuz space station, made Uchū-shu (cosmic sake). Coolest thing.

01:10:14 John Daub: Thanks for joining, learned from John Gartner. Hope you come to Japan soon. Link for Sake Handbook. Great day live streaming. Stare at these bottles—you should be here.