00:01 John Daub: Greetings, welcome to Ginza on a beautiful October afternoon. One of the questions that my friend Greg and I were just having lunch at Shake Shack just down the street in Yurakucho was, does Tokyo have an over-tourism problem? Greg is one of the founders of a website called Tokyo Cheapo, and we get a chance to meet and talk about stuff every now and then. This was a very enlightening conversation. I didn't have a lot of time to be here with him today, but I wanted to share some of my thoughts and some of the things we talked about. Like, could Tokyo actually have an over-tourism problem?

00:35 John Daub: I know tourism is on the rise here, causing a lot of problems around it. I remember I just got this comment about 48 hours ago: "Over-tourism can ruin the town." And he was talking about Nikko at the time, Nikko being one of the great day trips from Tokyo. That's kind of true. Over-tourism can kill a town, but can it kill a city? I was really skeptical on this. Over the last few years, Shibuya has the Shibuya Halloween, which is coming up. It's going to be in the news a little bit more probably in the next week or so, as tourists descend into Shibuya in their Halloween costumes. I don't really partake in that, but it's been considered one of the issues with over-tourism. Can Shibuya really have an over-tourism problem? Can there be too many tourists in Shibuya? No, that's not really possible, is it? So what is the actual issue going on with over-tourism in Tokyo?

01:43 John Daub: Japan has an over-tourism problem in some areas. We've seen it. This is kind of cool. You almost never see actual pumpkins. There's an actual real pumpkin, 41.5 kilograms. I never see pumpkins like orange pumpkins in Japan. That's really odd.

02:08 John Daub: Before we get too deep into this, I asked my good buddy ChatGPT this question. What does over-tourism really mean? Over-tourism refers to the phenomenon where a destination becomes overwhelmed by an excessive number of tourists, leading to negative impacts on the environment, local communities, and visitor experience. It's often overcrowding, environmental degradation, strain on infrastructure, and a diminished quality of life for residents. Popular destinations like Venice, Barcelona—those are cities. Maybe areas of those cities are impacted. Maybe Venice is special. Machu Picchu, that's for sure. Have faced issues with over-tourism leading to calls for sustainable tourism practices to balance visitor numbers and the well-being of the area. But what about Shibuya? Does this fit?

02:59 John Daub: I asked our friend the AI specifically about Japan's problems with over-tourism, and it gave me a list of six places. Overcrowding at major tourist sites like Kyoto's temples, Nara's deer—these are out in the countryside, so I can kind of get this. How does this apply to Tokyo? Overcrowding, maybe to some extent. Impact on local communities—Shibuya does have a local community, but you have to walk away from Hachiko Scramble to really get there. They're sort of already separated from the tourism boom. Places like Kyoto—there's a difference between Tokyo and Kyoto, isn't there? Traditional neighborhoods are particularly affected by the rise in short-term vacation rentals. Environmental degradation—this is more natural destinations like the Japanese Alps, hot spring towns. Strain on public transportation—Tokyo, Kyoto. I can see some of the impact because people are bringing bigger wheeled suitcases into Tokyo. Cultural dilution in heavy tourist areas—traditional Japanese culture experiences such as tea ceremonies, geisha performances, and temple visits. Those right now are tourist attractions. Nobody really, Japanese people, do tea ceremony in everyday life. Geisha performances are almost exclusively for tourists. Over-commercialization—they're trying to make money. It's been like that in Kyoto for decades. Overburdened accommodations—that might be something here. There's a lot of hotels and lot of tourists, lot of people who don't know what they're doing.

05:15 John Daub: Bottom line is I don't think a lot of the over-tourism really applies to Shibuya. The issues they have with alcohol and street drinking is not actually part of over-tourism. Tourists have been going to Shibuya since the boom started in 2014. I don't see how it really plays into Tokyo. We've got transportation issues with luggage now. What happened to backpackers? We used to get a lot more backpackers. You go through Southeast Asia, you can't have a wheeled suitcase—you'd have a big backpack. I don't see backpackers here. I saw them more 10 years ago than now. Everybody has wheeled suitcases. The kind of tourist that's coming here has changed—more casual, people who wouldn't normally look for cultural experiences are coming to Japan.

06:11 John Daub: We're in Ginza right now for those watching. It's not over-tourism, too many tourists. The issue is the quality of the tourists, the kind of people coming to Japan. They don't have the same kind of respect or understanding of the culture. They don't know how to travel internationally. People traveling internationally now over the last five or six years are people that normally wouldn't be. I'm talking from countries like the United States, where they don't share a border with anybody. The U.S. is such a diverse place, but they don't go like in Europe where crossing from France to Germany, the differences are pronounced. We've got a lot of people that don't know how to travel. China is the same—there's not a lot of borders. When Chinese tourists go abroad, they're in a much different culture. Westerners might not see the difference between China and Japan so much, but trust me, after 26 years living here, those differences are huge.

07:38 John Daub: B Traven writes, Japan in 2014 was the expensive destination on your long journey of Southeast Asia. I miss the backpacker days. Right, this is the leg that was the premium side, where you could stay in a hotel, get a hot shower, drink from the tap water. I remember when I first came to Japan after visiting Asia, it was one of the last destinations. I wanted to bring you to Ginza because I just finished lunch here—our discussion is pretty fresh. It's such a fascinating thing where we're now talking about over-tourism. How does that really apply? It is a weekday, but I don't see so many tourists here. I don't see it overburdened by suitcases and people. I just see a normal everyday scene in Ginza that hasn't changed much. It's a little bit slower. This is a main intersection here in Ginza. You got G-Wagons in front of a Louis Vuitton store. I don't see it. It's hard for me to quantitate this over-tourism label for places like Shibuya, which have been dealing with tourists for a very long time.

09:14 John Daub: Over the last ten years since the tourism boom hit Japan, it's been on the rise—three million a month now. There's a lot more hotels, a lot more understanding, a lot more English speakers, signs, menus, restaurants that can cater to foreign tourists than back then. I think they can process the amount of tourists coming into Tokyo just fine. In fact, it's elastic—they could probably take more. Local feeling areas like Tsukiji Market—there are people who live there, including me. I feel the tourists are limited by the number—they're not going into local areas disrupting it. But public transportation, that's one area I see it. Shibuya is Shibuya. They're not suffering from over-tourism—they're suffering from a tourist quality issue. Low-class people are going there, the disruptors, lazy people who don't travel. "Oh, I can't find a trash can, so I'm just going to throw it on the ground." A lot of them like to go to the vibe, like a moth to light. They go to vibrant places like Shibuya where you can make trouble, drink on the street. Now you can't do that anymore, which is a direct result of this action. I don't think it's over-tourism.

11:02 John Daub: I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about it. Shout out to the nice Canadians who stopped by—they knew I was a YouTuber but didn't know my name. They were so polite, very Canadian. They gave me an honorary Canadian patch. Jason has dubbed me an honorary Canadian, and I've learned more about Canadian politics and daily life. Thank you to all our Canadians— we've got a lot on Patreon. Polite is Canada's default mode. Shouldn't it be that way? Sometimes the alleys of Ginza are way more interesting than the main streets.

12:17 John Daub: Why don't smaller towns just try to make anime series and use that to promote tourism? This is the issue. The first comment we saw, "overtourism can ruin the town," is true. Be careful what you wish for, because Kawaguchiko and Fujiyoshida are small towns in Yamanashi Prefecture. They were not prepared for the boom, especially Fujiyoshida. A picture of retro Japan with Mount Fuji in the background created a lot of tourists. People were almost getting hit by cars—tourists darting out for the shot. They put in staff with light sticks and vests to get people off the street. Now the street has trendy cafes, and tourists are staying in the old retro city. They've parlayed this social media attention into something blossoming. Kawaguchiko, on the other hand, exacerbated their problems—put up black sheets, got bad publicity, took them down. I tried to talk to the mayor before the black wall; his office would only talk to BBC, CNN, mass media, despite social media causing the issues. Fujiyoshida let me film—they created a tourism office where tourists go and use that space to their advantage. Those cities are 15 minutes drive from each other and have radically different approaches to over-tourism.

15:32 John Daub: As a small town going from everyday Japanese life into a tourism city is not easy for an island country like Japan. This is real. I don't think it could ruin a city—cities are elastic. Tokyo can take the tourism. People don't stay—it's not like the illegal migrant crisis in New York. New York has way bigger issues and is pretty elastic. B Traven writes, Tokyo can take it for sure. New York is full of tourists all the time—never heard of over-tourism there. Tokyo wasn't really a big tourist attraction—it was too expensive, attracted business people really interested in Japanese culture. Now you're getting people coming because it's trendy. They don't know much about Japan or international travel—they think the culture should be similar to the U.S. So when they get something like "you can have a beer on the street," it's overload, and they abuse it. Shibuya banned public drinking on the streets—it's not even a ban, there's no penalty. Most of my countrymen are like, "eh." That's sickening because if you're embarrassing yourself, you're embarrassing your country.

17:58 John Daub: I came here when there were few foreigners—I felt my actions had consequences for the community. Now there's so many foreigners, they don't feel the same. They don't feel shame, and Japanese can't understand that. The mayor of Shibuya's issue this Halloween—how do you deal with tourists that have no shame? A guard says "you're not allowed to drink here," and they're like "what are you going to do?" There's no law, no penalties—you won't get arrested. The worst is a Japanese YouTuber wrestling you down. There are militant Japanese YouTubers out there who want to keep Japan the way it is—as do I, though we have different ways. What do you guys think? Is Shibuya a victim? I don't think so. Tokyo isn't. Some neighborhoods might have issues, but they have to evolve.

19:41 John Daub: It's an interesting debate. I wish Greg was still here—I'm trying to get Greg to come in and do a podcast. He's been here as long as I have, maybe longer. He's the co-founder of TokyoCheapo.com, a good friend. Our businesses depend on it, and he has data-driven information. Let's use that data in a podcast—maybe twice a month on Go. His name is Greg Lane—he comes from a tech background, analytical. I come from creative. Put it together, you have a pretty good podcast. Let me know feedback on this over-tourism issue. TokyoCheapo.com is the best site for events and things happening in Japan—they've got a YouTube channel too.

21:32 John Daub: Shibuya and Shinjuku late night can be full of obnoxious gaijin foreigners—yeah, that's right. Kawaguchiko leadership sounds typical LDP. They should seek out people like us for help. We live in Japan, have a vested interest in its success. If you don't utilize our experience cutting between Western and Japanese sides—I've been here 26, 27 years—how are you going to connect? If you think CNN is the best way to reach tourists, you're wrong. You need to reach people on social media, take advantage of those with vested interest in your city's success. I love Kawaguchiko and was surprised at the mayor's old-school approach. When you come to Tokyo, I want you to have the best possible experience. If you like Japan, you'll come back—that means somebody did something successful. Japan is doing an amazing job getting people to fall in love, but they have a challenge to keep it up.

24:10 John Daub: The new prime minister Ishiba sees economic impact on shrinking small towns that need cash or business opportunities. What would get young people back to hometowns? Tourism, money. I'm starting to see buds of economic growth in small towns—some will grow, some fizzle. Fujiyoshida is doing amazing; Kawaguchiko the wrong direction. Going to Japan in 19 days—how's the weather in November? Right now I'm in shorts and sandals, unusually warm, but fall is in the air. Trees starting to turn yellow. In November it'll be chillier—you'll need a jacket, pants, layers. Get one at Uniqlo cheap, or rent clothing—check my main channel. Look around on the street to see how people dress.

27:02 John Daub: That's all I got today—I gotta go home and work on another episode. The yen is almost at 150 to the dollar again. Hard to predict markets, but eventually it'll get to 130. Ishiba says don't hike interest rates, so yen weakening. U.S. election could change it. Take advantage while it's cheap—it won't stay this way forever. Elderly seniority will never change—the older you get, the more respect. It has benefits, though challenging for young intelligent people. Take care from Ginza—see you in another livestream tomorrow to talk issues impacting your trip and learn about Japan. Leave a question below. Matane. Kyoto is not a victim either—they're victims of their own mistakes. They've had years to fix over-tourism. They're starting—buses with luggage storage now. They could have fixed it long ago. Matane.